You think we came from clay. At least OUR stuff is organic. Oh, and no. It wasn't goo.

Conclusion: Your momma, bitch.

(Edited by Shuichi at 2:43 am on June 4, 2006)

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Robbie

A diversity of life springs from a diversity of environments and situations in which it must survive. A diversity of environments is due to the a dizzying array of factors from the distance of the sun and the pull of the moon to the temperature of the earth's core and its rotation speed.

(Edited by Shuichi at 2:43 am on June 4, 2006)

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Robbie

This is one we'll see every so often. This allows the Christian in question to utterly ignore reason because "worldly logic < heavenly logic". Here's a newsflash. There is no heavenly and worldly logic. There's just logic. Or, alternatively, since God created our brains and the laws that govern the universe, one could argue that all logic is heavenly logic. But I won't.

Logic is logic is logic. There's is no difference in how worldly and heavenly logic work. People with "worldly" logic and people with "heavenly" logic just accept different truths and operate in the same manner. The problem is that people using "worldly" logic can show you where their truths came from and provide proof and validation for them. Heavenly logic has a damn hard time with that. Since it is all the same logic, and you can't just use something without proof and expect the result to be logical... well, sucks, don't it?

Conclusion: There's only one kind of logic, you massive fucktard.

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Robbie

This is interesting because the same people who will rant about original sin being unfair because you can't blame someone for something their forebears did will bring this up. Well, what about it, hypocrisy lad? You up for answering the challenge?

Regardless, I don't see this as a matter of Christianity being bad. If one gets to the heart of Christianity, it is about love and forgiveness. But, as Gandhi said, Christians are so unlike Christ. It is a matter of human nature, to be honest with you. Things like the Crusades and the Inquisiton would happen with or without religion. Their natures would be different, but the destruction would be just as nasty. People will quarrel, people will fight, people will die. Removing reasons for war is just an excuse to find new reasons a lot of times.

The mere fact that an atheist would offer these arguments is proof that Christianity and religion is not to blame. Stupidity exists independent of any conception of a spiritual reality.

Conclusion: Shut the hell up you idiot. My poor half-dead ferret could probably run fucking circles around you when it comes to a history debate. Hell, the dead one could probably give you a run for your money.

(Edited by Shuichi at 2:39 am on June 4, 2006)

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Robbie

Idiots often use this to justify abortion. Now, I am not going to turn this into an abortion debate (and, by the way, that's the only restriction I place on this thread. Don't turn it into an abortion debate)

The species of an organism is determined by its DNA. A fetus has human DNA. Case closed, a fetus is a human being. You can say it isn't a person and try to justify that, but don't try this argument, Okay?

Conclusion: This demonstrates such a glaring lack of scientific knowledge I have to wonder how many times you repeated the first grade and how long it took you to get to your current lofty position in the third grade.

(Edited by Shuichi at 2:40 am on June 4, 2006)

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Robbie

Bigots are douchebags. We'll play this game if you want. Calling all Christians assholes because some people were bugging you outside the mall or some Jehova's Witnesses came to your door with free bibles is akin to calling all people of African descent dirty criminals because I drove by Temple University in Philly and saw the surrounding neighborhood. Using this argument is making a vast generalization and makes you no better than a racist. Congratulations, you just placed yourself on a pedastal with a number of prominent KKK leaders and even ol' Hitler. Except you're probably not a genius when it comes to public speaking and oods are good you couldn't revitalize the economy of a wartorn nation to save your life. Wow, look at that. You're worse than Hitler.

Conclusion: For shame, you sub-Hitler monster!

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Robbie

First off, I say this to anyone who thinks this: You're a moron. With that out of the way, let's continue, shall we? I don't care how bad your life is. Not in the sense that I'm about to make a comparison saying someone else is worse off, in the sense that I honestly do not care. Okay, that's not true. I'll probably sympathize if you're having a bad time, and I might offer words of comfort assuming you aren't being an ass. Also, I lied when I claimed I wouldn't say someone else is worse off.

People are worse off. People have been worse off. If you think your petty problems, no matter how horrible they may seem to you, are products of God's hate, you have absolutely no perspective.

Now, we'll go on to the select few who actually have had lives so horrific that they can only attribute it to divine grudges, rather than the aforementioned "I'm a drug addict and my boyfriend is moving away so God must hate me because I chose to do drugs and my boyfriend's family decided to move" folks.

Your argument is valid to use if you're talking to someone who believes that God orchestrates every moment of our insignificant lives. If not, you're probably talking to someone who believes that the world operates by certain natural laws and probabilities that mean certain people are going to get the short end of the stick. In the latter case, this argument is similar to the "The bible says..." argument in that it means nothing to the person you're talking to.

Conclusion: In most cases it is you that blows and no He doesn't, respectively.

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Robbie

Suffering is a rather unfortunate side-affect of your nervous system, and life has a 100% mortality rate. Deal with it. Anyway, my common answer is: You honestly expect God, should He exist, to intervene in every single person's life and fix all those problems? Heck, if I was God, I'd probably let that stuff happen. Mostly because I'd have perspective that spans the length and breadth of eternity and your suffering would be less than even the tiniest fraction of an eyeblink you could think of. Heaven is where it's at, folks. :p

Conclusion: Because, you whiny asshole.

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Robbie

This forum is a place where Livewire members can discuss issues in a community of people who share a variety of religious beliefs and perspectives. For the most part, members seem to consist of Christians (of all denominations) and ATheists, though there are certainly other members who represent Islam and agnosticism, as well as other major world religions and more individual religious beliefs.

The purpose of this forum is twofold, as the title suggests: Religion and Philosophy.

The forum is frequented by both athiests and theists, who will provide criticism of each other, so arguments and debate are to be expected, especially given the highly perosnal nature of many of the opinions expressed by both sides. Try to keep it respectful. Remember that theists are entitled to an opinion on and will comment on apparently atheistic topics and atheists will have opinions on, and will comment on apparently theistic issues.

This forum is one of the most controversial in terms of the debates that occur. If you are offended by a comment made by another member then please raise the issue with them using the PM system in order to try and avoid the involvement of others. Please remember that you are not obliged either to read a topic or reply, and that if you find something offesive you can simply close your browser.

Equally, this forum is not to become a place for unwarranted or malicious criticism of people whose beliefs differ from your own. Criticism is one thing, abuse is another. Again, try and resolve the matter via PM if you experience problems of this kind, or ask a moderator to speak to the person involved, and try to resolve the situation amicably.

In general, expect to find both support and criticism throughout this forum. Be aware that it is subject to the same rules concerning language as the other boards and that swearing is neither completely prohibited nor tolerated in excess. If you really object then in a thread that you have created you can request that people refrain from using profanity.

(Edited by Shuichi at 3:07 am on June 4, 2006)

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Robbie

Utilitarianism - the ethical system which holds that the moral action is determined by an evaluation of what is best for the greatest number of people.

Post edited at 8:27 am on Jan. 15, 2008 by Prince o palities

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"It is the wrong question to ask, and therefore, as one  might expect, has
no right answer." - Hans von Campenhausen

This is the philosophy of my life.